Episode 166: The Disruptive Successor - How Jonathan Goldhill Built a Family Business Coaching EmpireSep 26, 2022
Jonathan Goldhill is a masterful business coach and personal strategist specializing in guiding next-generation leaders of family businesses to scale up their business as they take control over the leadership and ownership of the family business. Jonathan left New York for California at age 20 after his family’s large, privately-held men’s apparel manufacturing company—started by his great-grandfather—sold to a conglomerate in its third generation of family ownership. Within ten years, Jonathan had established himself as the go-to expert for entrepreneurs looking to find their version of freedom. Today, Jonathan brings thirty years of experience to his clients advising, coaching, consulting, training, and guiding entrepreneurial and family businesses.
He has a podcast called The Disruptive Successor and a book by the same name. In his book, he outlines a framework that small businesses can use to scale up their businesses. He focuses on family businesses because he has a lot of experience and success in that area. The podcast was an opportunity for him to extend his brand beyond just the book. Most small businesses, especially family businesses, are so busy just managing the day-to-day that they don't focus on building their brand. But Jonathan sees the value in that and is helping his clients do just that.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
- What it takes to be a successful family business coach and consultant
- How Jonathan Goldhill's experience with his family's business led him to start the Goldhill Group
- What the Seven P Playbook is and how it can help businesses
“I've always worked in companies that had someone who banged down the doors. They were a high influencing, high dominating kind of maybe a sales or entrepreneurial leader. And I was always the number two guy behind them.”
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Hi. This is Juliet Hahn. Welcome to your next stop. So, season three, I am having humans on your next stop. It's not just women, it is humans that have followed a passion and turned into a business.
And my first guest is Jonathan Goldhill. I'm really excited for you guys to dive into this episode. Jonathan is a consultant. He coaches entrepreneurs and family businesses and how to kind of grow and scale their business.
He has a podcast called The Disruptive Successor. He also has a book, Disruptive Successor. And again. His company is the Gold Hill Group. You can find him on really any social media.
He hangs out on LinkedIn the most, but you can also go to IG, which is the Gold Hill Group. Twitter the Gold Hill group. But really you're going to find the most at his website, which is thegoldhillgroup.com I'm really excited for you guys to learn about Jonathan's story and his Pivots. He started basically his journey, his family. He grew up in Scarsdale, New York.
His family had a family business. By the time he was getting into the workforce, that was no longer so that's really where he got his idea to start the Gold Hill Group and just wait until you hear about the Pivots and how he took opportunities to then be able to leverage the learning that he received to then start his own business. And he's been doing this for over 22 years. So again, the Disruptive Successor book and podcast. You can find Jonathan on all the socials, but really if you go to his website, you can get some free tools and tips.
You can also download some free chapters of The Disruptive Successor. Don't forget to follow me on all my socials. I am Juliet Han and check out other episodes of your Next Stop or YNS live with the NFL series and we will see you guys next week. Have you ever been listening to your favorite podcast and that moment comes up and you think, oh my gosh, I need to share it? Well, now you can with picked cherries.
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Hello everyone. Welcome back to your next stop. I am the host, Juliette Han. Another episode where you guys are going to be inspired. I am so excited to introduce you to Jonathan Goldhill.
He is a I just say gold Hill. Take that out, Audi. Jonathan Goldhill a family business coach and has a book, Disruptive Successor. Jonathan does really, really cool things and if you read his bio, the first thing, the first word is passion. He is passionate about helping entrepreneurs and family business grow, and he's been doing that since 1986.
So I can't wait to dive into this. Welcome, Jonathan, to your next stop. Thanks a lot, Juliet. Pleased to be on the show today. Well, I'm excited to dive into your story because I know when I was on your podcast, we really had such great synergy and such I mean, the conversation really took so many different paths, and I knew that I was excited when season three started, when I was having humans on your next stop, not just women, that you were going to be a guest.
So can you give us a little background about who you are and then really where your life kind of took your pivots and churns and how you ended up starting the Gold Hill Group? Yeah, that's a really big question. So who am I? I am a human, for sure, like you said. And I think I'm someone who's always somewhat marched to my own the beat of my own drum, but always been inspired by other people who I felt were I used the term leading blockers.
It's kind of a football term, but I've always worked in companies that had someone who banged down the doors. They were a high influencing, high dominating kind of maybe a sales or entrepreneurial leader. And I was always the number two guy behind them. And this goes back to my childhood. I used to wait outside my older brother's door when he wasn't feeling well, waiting for him to maybe need something, and I would go get it for him.
I've been that guy. And what's interesting is my life has really evolved today. And Juliet, I'm 64 years old, and I no longer use the term like work from home. WFH I'm WFA. I'm working from anywhere.
I love that. Today I'm speaking to you. I'm in Southampton, New York. Yesterday I was in Lower Manhattan. Yes.
And you live on the West Coast, right? Yes. Saturday I'm going to be in Los Angeles, and then on Monday or Wednesday, I'm going to be up in Monterey. And then I've been traveling. I've been in Europe.
I've been all over, really. And I'm able to do this work, which is business coaching, advising, mentoring, being a trusted adviser. And so how did I get into this work? So little back up. My family built a very large men's suit manufacturing company, and that was built in the really going back to the early 1900s all the way into the late 1960s.
And they sold it, but continued to run it until 1986. It was a very successful business. When I say they sold it for a very large sum of money, they were given lifetime employment contracts as the CEO and CAO. And this is all for my research. I don't remember getting this information first hand from my grandfather, but he lived a very successful lifestyle, philanthropic, very large social life, and he was an artist and a clothing executive.
And I just always admired who he was. He was such a self made man. I was like, I wanted to be that person, but unfortunately, I did not have that same drive. He was a new immigrant. He was born here, but he and his brothers had to pick themselves up by the bootstraps.
And everything they did was everything they made was theirs. And the story of working with family businesses is that it takes three generations to go from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves, which means that by the third or fourth generation, they've spent all the money that was made by amassed by the family, and it's starting all over again. And so I grew up in, I would say, upper middle class family scarsdale. Mamarineck, New York, lived a pretty amazing life. Got to move to California when I was 20 to finish college and to follow my passion.
And I continued following my passion. And eventually, at some point, I said, you know, I need to go to business school and get an education because I'm kind of doing some of these entrepreneurial things, but I have no roadmap, no mentor, no framework. And that's when I went to get my MBA at University of Southern California and learned some of my first frameworks and started business consulting with small businesses after that. And I've just continued to do that for the last 30 years. It's morphed into coaching, right?
But it's still consulting, advising small and mostly family owned businesses, which, I mean. The thing that I love. And I remember when I was on your podcast, the Disruptive Successor, that also mimics your book. You guys have to check both of those out. And before you can also check out jonathan on IG the gold hill group.
Twitter the gold hill group. You can check out his website as well. So if you're listening to this and you're not driving and you're like, hey, I just want to look a little bit about this, what Jonathan is doing, because you have a small business or, you know, someone that has a family business and you know that his expertise will be able to help you. But one of the things, Jonathan, that I loved when I was on your podcast is the connection that you had to your grandfather. He was definitely a very special man to you, but you can also feel it when you spoke.
I know we spoke about the whole storytelling and how we all connect through stories, and that was one of the things that you and I really connected on. And I thought which was so lovely. And even when you just said now that you stood outside your brother's door, it sounded like your grandfather was a lot like that, that you really got his service heart, as you said, he was very philanthropic and that you got his service heart and then took it to a different level and followed the path that was meant to be for you. Which is really cool to see how this evolved, that you learned a lot about your family history because you are curious. That's one of the things that we really connected with, the curiosity.
And then from there you said, I want to be able to help people that were in a kind of position that my grandfather and my family and my dad and my brother that had this kind of business, how can I help in a different way? And then that's where you really evolved. And so I think it's so interesting that's why season three, I really wanted to have humans on, not just women because I am now at a different place in my business, my career, my podcast, with my speaking engagements, with the coaching that I'm doing, the consulting I'm doing. And so I think it's so interesting the steps that you have taken and weaved and done that. So when did you start the podcast and write the book?
If you could tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so the podcast and the book launched the same month and that was November of 2020 and I started writing the book probably in January of that same year. And what was the book about? Like the book was an effort for me to put my own stamp on what I do. I've usually had other people's tools, other people's systems, and I was marketing or promoting those systems, but I always felt that there was something that needed to come from me.
And so what I did was I put a framework, like a roadmap, like a book with tools that small businesses could use to scale up their businesses. And I focus on family businesses because that's where I had some really good stories and good success.
The podcast was an opportunity to expand the brand and extend it beyond just the book. As you know, for a coach to have a book that's like for an ordinary person to have a business card. Right? I don't even carry a business card anymore. I actually don't carry my book either.
But that's what I lead with is like, get a copy of my book and then let's talk. That usually is pretty convincing to people like, oh, this guy knows what he's talking about and he's got a few things that he could help us with. Right? And I love that you married those together because it's true, the fact that you're using the podcast to build your brand. And so I would love for you to touch on that a little bit.
Do you coach your clients the same way? So if they have a family business and a podcast makes sense, do you also help them kind of figure that aspect out or is that something that they find out on your own or you are coaching a little different them in those aspects. Are you asking me if I'm coaching them to take their business and turn it into a podcast? Is that what you're asking? No, not turn it into a podcast, but as you said, building a brand, I mean, it's so brilliant and so many people don't realize what the power of podcasting can be for your brand.
Right? Yeah. So I have clients who are really successful and this is really the minority, a client is really successful who is oriented towards coaching others and giving back and knows the power of video and does a lot of video and does a lot of social media. And also they're not doing a podcast, but they participate in other people's podcasts quite a bit. And it wouldn't surprise me if in a year or two that this particular individual launches a podcast as well because he's very aspirational and building his company, which has gone from a couple of million dollar business to $15 million a year now, he's really able to I mean, he's focusing at the business on a more strategic level and he's focusing on building his brand.
But most small businesses, most family businesses that are probably 10 million and under, they're not focusing so much on themselves as a thought leader or as a brand spokesperson. They're busy just trying to deal with managing the messaging with their customers and their employees and managing all the relationships and the changes in the growth and the hundreds of other things that come with running a business these days. Right, so I love how you said that because that's the thing and this is why I love doing the podcast because it really sparks different things when I ask a question and someone said something and then I'm like, oh, my wheels are getting turned. Because the fact that you said, and I want my listeners to hear this again, the fact that you started the podcast to build your brand, it was something that was in your wheelhouse. Podcasting is not easy.
I'm sure when you first started it, there was a learning curve. Absolutely. A lot of people think, oh, I can just put a podcast out. It's a lot of work behind the scenes, so it is not for everyone. But one of the things, and I've had a couple of other guests on this podcast that have said that what you just said about using a podcast to build your brand, people don't think of it that way.
And specifically, if a company, a small business, a family owned business, has that individual in their business that actually could start the podcast, it's smart to do because people don't think of themselves as the brand, they use the business as the brand instead of marketing themselves. And it really is an awesome flip because a lot of times the people behind the scenes that started this business are really dynamic, really interesting people and have really incredible stories that they don't lead with. They lead what their services are and that is smart. I mean, obviously that is a good thing to do. But a lot of times if you lead with your story and you're the brand, it's going to connect with a different group.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking about a podcast that I was just on last week or two weeks ago and I was a guest and it's with Richard Grove of Wall Storage Systems down in Atlanta, Georgia. And he brought in another small business coach and an interviewer. It was one of his first and early podcasts.
But he sees the power of the podcast as a way to expand his influence as a social media marketer. And he's got a really cool product. They're involved in doing wall storage. So I think if I recall correctly, originally it was like moms and women at home who wanted their houses organized so they couldn't stand their husband's peg board system in the garage where the pegs would always fall out. And initially I think it was like we could do this in the kitchen.
And so it's expanded into a wall storage business that it's like the Container Store but it's focused on using your wall as a place for rack systems. I think he's seeing the podcast as a way to extend his brand in a really positive way. And again, I think he's at a size where the business is running itself pretty well so he can step outside of the wheelhouse of what he has to do to be able to promote this brand. I love that and I love that you got to kind of be a part and see that because I'm sure talking to other people, having people on your podcast, being on other people's podcasts, you get ideas and ideas that kind of help continue growing your company and doing what you're doing. Can you tell us a little bit about the Seven P playbook?
Yeah, so I think a lot of business books have tools and I think tools are what help people to reengineer the way they think about things and then ultimately change their behavior. So the tool buck, Mr. Fuller said, the use of which the tool changes their behavior and the way they think. So I think it's really valuable. And so my book is filled with half a dozen downloadable tools that you get off the website and it's built into a framework, which is one of my tools.
The main tool is called the Seven P's framework and in no particular order, but it generally starts with what's your purpose and what's your plan, what are your priorities, your 90 day, one year, three year priorities? The plan is what is your one year, three year, ten year? Who are your people like? Who's going to be the team that gets you where you need to go and who is someone on the team, who are the people that you're really enthusiastic about that are on your team and maybe who's on the team that needs to be let go of? What else did I skip over?
Your products? Which is your product or your service? What is it? What are you doing to make it? Let's just say sexier.
And by sexier, I mean upgraded with technology so that the delivery system is improved or the feedback from the customer is improved or the business model has changed. So how do you update those, which is really challenging for a lot of family businesses, because family businesses are typically like manufacturing, service, construction, and they know they need to do something different than the way their mother or father did it, but they're not really sure what that looks like. And then so we go into performance. So there are seven of these different piece that provide a framework for people to use this tool to look at their business through that particular lens. And then I've now put together a growth checklist around those tools, which people can download off of my website.
That's great. I love the fact that you have your business, you have your coaching consulting company, the Gold Hill Group. You saw that. Okay, the next step, really, the next stop in your life is, okay, let's do a book and let's do a podcast. So you're really giving your clients this really amazing toolbox.
It's not just you coaching one on one. You can say, hey, I want you to listen to episode X, Y, and Z on my podcast, because I talk about that there. Or, I want you to go to chapter five. I want you to read up that. So it's not only giving you the it's made you be able to spread yourself a little bit wider, I would assume, and I would love for you to comment on this, but really kind of give yourself make one, two, or three of you instead of there's only just one.
You only have this many hours in a day, but you can give your clients a little homework. Hey, I want you to do this, I want you to do that. Was that done purposefully or was that kind of came about? Yeah. So like I said earlier, I was using other people's systems and other people's tools and their frameworks, and eventually you get to a level maturity in your business where you start thinking like, well, I want it branded kind of my own way.
I want to communicate. I know some great tools and checklists, and they're great for other types of companies, but they're not great for necessarily the company that's my ideal client. And so I put together stuff that I thought would serve my ideal client, and I continue to try and improve that. And look, I'm not trying to build a business out of this. My business is, like I said earlier, it's a WFA.
It's work from anywhere, and it's work with anyone in terms of vendors and people that are all over the world. But my team that I work with is all fractional, they're all remote. So I'm not looking to build a company of coaches and have a location and let them develop them into my system. But it is great to have these tools and frameworks and checklists that you can put out on your website, you can put them out on social media, and it's a great way for people to get to know you and start to look at their business through your lens. And if they like the lens that they're looking through, like, well, let's have a conversation with this person.
Let's get close up with them, which. I think is really cool. And so you touched also on starting this business as a passion. A lot of times my listeners know, a lot of my guests have been they've done the steps where they went to university, they got a corporate job, they realized they hated the corporate job. They decided to go into business for themselves and go in that route.
Was your strictly you started your own business right out of getting your business degree? No, actually when I got my MBA, I did a few interviews. I knew I wanted to go into consulting. I was an entrepreneur grad, but I knew I didn't have a business that I wanted to start right off. I knew I wanted to be a consultant.
And after a few interviews with some large firms where I saw this doesn't look interesting at all. You go work with a big healthcare company. If you take off on a plane Sunday night, you're in a hotel Monday through Friday, you fly back home Friday. I was like, okay, that's not my thing. And I looked at a handful of firms like that, and I just said, you know, I hung my own shingle initially as a small business consultant, but I saw how difficult it was to market and get clients.
And so within a few months, I joined a fledgling business and economic development firm in the San Fernando Valley, and I stayed there for ten years. And over the next ten years, we took this fledgling company that like in my second year, we had only $100,000 in revenue split amongst three people. So we borrowed $10,000 from the Chamber of Commerce upstairs, and within like five years we were well, other people's misfortune, which was an earthquake in 1994 was our fortune because we got a lot of funding from the city, the state, the county, and ultimately the federal government. And we created these programs to provide business counseling, business loan training, entrepreneurial training, and we assisted thousands upon thousands of businesses. And I stayed there for ten years, and we built it into a 35 person $4 million a year, ten plus million dollars in assets, company.
So it was a good ride. And then I just realized that it was time for me to go out on my own and do my own thing. And that's when I left. Yeah, that's really cool, because, again, this is what I want the listeners to take from this, that you knew that that's not really what you wanted to do, but you also saw where you could learn from it and then take that and leverage it out when you start your own business. And I think that's something that's really important that people don't always appreciate.
You know, sometimes people will say, oh, well, I was in this career, but it was really my wrong career. It was, like, not my path. I don't know how I landed there. I'm stuck. And I always say to people, you might be stuck, you might be feeling stuck.
However, the situation that you're in right now, the company that you're working for, whatever you're doing, if you're not working, you're working. Whatever you are in life, you have to look around you and really think, okay, what can I learn from this experience? Because everything is really a learning experience, whether every day you wake up, you're going to learn something. If you're aware and have an open mind to allow that to happen. So I think it's very cool that you decided, you know what?
I see something here that I can kind of learn and then take it and leverage it into my own company. So did you quit that job first or retire from that job first and then start your own business? Or were you starting it kind of as you were, knowing that you were on your way out? So I always knew that I could go back into being a work from home solo consultant, because I knew that after ten years that I built something, that I could do it on my own. I knew it was going to be a little harder because we had some unique advantages.
We were the only business and economic development center in all of the San Fernando Valley, and so we were the agency that got money when it flowed into our 1 million population area. Right. So the answer to your question is the Internet was happening in a really big way. It was 1998, and companies were taking off left and right, and they were getting funded based on the back of a napkin kind of a business plan. They'd get a few million dollars.
So my initial idea was to go work for the most successful incubator of small businesses, which was started by a guy named Bill Gross, and it was called Ideal Lab. And he was churning out companies there. Like, every day he was coming up with more ideas and funding more companies. And so I thought, Well, I want to go over there and be like his general manager. And so I got a paid interview for a week and at the end of the week they said, we don't think it's the right fit.
Well of course it's not a right fit. You're going to have me do regression models. I'm not that guy. And it turns out that the person who was the right fit was the woman in the office next door who got married a few years later to Bill Gross. Okay, so that wasn't it.
And then I got recruited by a friend who had known me through parties and social circles and said, I've got this organization. I need a COO. I need someone who can run events. We're planning to do like 80 events this year. And they are for people who are migrating from the old economy to the new economy.
And it's basically a digital media networking organization where we do events, we have sponsors, we have advertisers, we have partnerships. And your background because you were involved in the Whole Life Expo, which is a large consumer oriented type of trade show in New York, in San Francisco and La. Where I had been a GM of that organization, he knew that I could be successful in sales and the events business and managing staff. So I jumped over to that thing and it was really exciting. I mean, we did some amazing events.
We had a lot of people show up. We were building out a huge business plan. We were trying to raise money. We only were able to secure a million dollars from one investor whose net worth went from 300 million down to like 6 million overnight when the Nasdaq crashed. And so he kind of backed out of that deal with us.
And I think it was six or nine months later, it was, okay, what do I do now? This business is not viable any longer. We lost our biggest sponsors and as most MBAs did, they either went and most people in that language that day was everything was B to B and B to C, business to business, business to consumer. But that language changed to back to banking and back to consulting. So for me it was back to consulting.
It was set up your computer at your home, start hustling for clients. And that was in 2000. So it's been 22 years I've been on my own, and sometimes they're not always easy. A lot of times in the beginning I wanted to quit or I wanted to find someone else, some other person who could rescue me or take me to the next level or who would be the leading blocker. But I never quite found that person.
At one point I joined a firm actually about seven years ago, and this guy was definitely a leading blocker, but I just decided that he was not a team player. And people know the reference that there's no I in team. Well, there is actually, if you. Look at the A and the hole in the A, and there he is, the A hole. So that's when I decided to not participate with that guy anymore and went back out on my own and I never looked back.
Right. I mean, I love that and I love the progression and the growth. As you kind of stepped into different roles, what do you think made you as fearless? And I know that there's fear, right. I always say to people, I know we all have fear, but what made you kind of be like, I'm just going to keep jumping and going and doing it?
Do you think that's something that you innately are born with, or do you feel watching family members or you had experiences? I think we talked about this because of my Dyslexia. I think it was actually one of the questions you asked me sort of because of my Dyslexia, I failed so many times in school that I don't even think of anything as failure. I'll tackle anything, and if I fail, I fail. I know that's a learning.
There's something I'm going to learn out of that failure. Or I don't even like the word failure, but misstep. And I really feel like that's what gave me kind of the balls to really just go in all in to a lot of different things that I've done in my life. So I would love to hear a little bit from you. Where do you think you get that?
I'm trying to think in my mind, if I look back, I'm not a historian. And for those of you who might know Jim Collins, who is the best selling business author of books like Built to Last and Good to Great, he really goes back and he does his research. So I don't do deep dive research on even my past behaviors, but I do think that there might have been an inflection point for me, and that might have been around 2008 or nine when the real estate market crashed. I had always made a good living doing what I did. Juliet and I would say that we lived a pretty nice lifestyle on the living that I made, so we kind of supplemented it with a little bit of help from family members and things like that.
When that market crashed and the value in my home went underwater because we had borrowed off the house a little bit too much and we had leveraged, we were able to borrow off it because the market was going up. When that thing crashed, my back was up against the wall and there was nothing to do but focus on buckle down and be more aggressive and more assertive and more fearless. And knowing that was bottom, probably for me. A lot of entrepreneurs experience boom and bust cycles in their own personal wealth, and I never really had that before. Like I said earlier, I grew up in a good family.
There was some money. I kind of had some money early in my 20s, gave me the freedom and flexibility to kind of pick and choose what I wanted to do. So I always followed my passion. But it was when I started my consulting business on my own in 2000. But the first seven years were challenging, and I was always hustling to try and get the next business and the next deal.
I think when my back was up against the wall, like your story, you have no choice but to fight your way out of it and put your head down. So that's my story. I love that, and I love that. As I said when I started season three, when I was really brainstorming and thinking I want to have humans on my live shows, have taken off with the NFL series. So I was like, I really want this season three to be humans.
And you were one of the first people I thought about. So thank you so much for joining your next stop. I love hearing your story. I love that we're connected in our fearlessness and so many things with the podcast and everything that you do. So thank you so much, Jonathan.
My pleasure. Before we leave, if I'm going to do this in the beginning and I already did it, but if you want to just let anyone know where to really search you up if there's a different spot than I mentioned. And again, when I open the show, I tell everyone where so they see it like three or four times. So if they forget to write it down once, they get it again. But do you want to share with the listeners, really, where you hang out the most?
I mean, a lot of people connect with me on LinkedIn the most in terms of the social media platforms. I try to make myself available on any of them. And you should be able to find me. I'm not active on Instagram or Facebook, but the best place really is to go to my website, and that's thegoldhillgroup.com from there, you can grab a chapter of my book. You can grab some free tools.
You can download. You can listen to my podcast. You can find the growth checklist and take that. That's really the best place. And then there's also you can schedule a call with me or you can email me, contact me.
It's all really right there for you. It's pretty easy. Perfect. All right, guys, you know what to do. Like share, rate and review.
And you might be listening to this and be like, oh, I love that I feel more connected to Jonathan. And then you just leave it. But you know what? I want you to share it with three, four or five of your friends and family members because there's someone in your life that you might not realize that needs Jonathan. You might actually know someone that has a family business right now that's struggling after covet or things have changed and they don't know where to go.
Jonathan would be able to help leverage that family business, so definitely reach out to him. Listen to his podcast. The Disruptive successor. Get his book, as he said, if you go to his website. And Jonathan, again, thank you so much for joining your next stop.
My pleasure. I hope you liked this episode of your next stop. Please subscribe to my channel, share with your friends, and join in each week you.
My focus is entirely on helping you follow your passion, even when you feel like you've got stuck in crazy town. There is a way out, its me helping you. You don't have to ditch everything in your life that is making you feel overwhelmed and stuck, you just need some help to navigate it.
WHEN YOU FOLLOW YOUR PASSION YOU WILL NATURALLY ENRICH THE PEOPLE YOU LOVE