S3E24: The Hidden Struggles of Dyscalculia - Finding Empowerment Through Understanding

Have you ever heard these myths about dyscalculia? Myth 1: Dyscalculia is just a lack of effort in learning math. Myth 2: Dyscalculia only affects children and doesn't persist into adulthood. Myth 3: People with dyscalculia are not intelligent. But hold on, we’re about to share the truth about dyscalculia, and it's not what you might expect. Stay tuned for some eye-opening insights.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction and Dyscalculia Definition 

00:01:46 - Personal Experiences with Dyscalculia 

00:04:00 - Difficulty in Remembering Numbers 

00:07:29 - Challenges in School and Teaching 

00:10:44 - Real-Time Experience with Dyscalculia 

00:12:07 - Overcoming Math Anxiety 

00:13:39 - Struggling with Calculations 

00:16:52 - Coping with Dyscalculia 

00:18:21 - Dealing with Math Anxiety 

00:21:53 - The Exhaustion of Math-Related Tasks 

00:22:29 - Understanding Dyscalculia 

00:22:48 - Personal Experience with Dyscalculia 

00:23:15 - The 5 Ds of Dyscalculia 

00:23:33 - Spreading Awareness

Transcript:

00:00:02
Welcome back to word blindness. Dyslexia exposed. This is Juliet Hahn here with my ghost, Brent Sobel. How are you? Oh, what a wonderful day.

00:00:12
Today we're going to be talking. I feel like this is a Sesame street episode. On today's episode, we're going to be talking about dyscalculia. And I'm going to read the definition. No, I'm not.

00:00:22
Wow. You're going to read. I'm not, but I did. Look at this. I mean, it's not just like a sentence.

00:00:33
Okay, So I will actually. And we like to say dyscalcula. I like to say my. When I say dyscalculia, my kids stop saying that. Why are you saying it like that?

00:00:42
Well, like, that's what the scientists said. That's the proper terminology. I. You know, I always see dyscalcula, you know, because it's easier. People have to recognize, you know, some recognization to that.

00:00:52
But it's the proper permit. Just calculia. Yeah, but I used to say dyscalcula, too, but nobody knows what either term is. No, because we. So basically is a learning disability resulting in difficulty learning or comprehending arithmetic, such as difficulty in understanding numbers.

00:01:14
I don't know what that word is. Learning how to manipulate numbers, performing calculations and learning. Oh, red, your face just got. Trying to read that. I know.

00:01:22
I was like, numeracy.

00:01:26
You're not good with numbers. Not good reading either, apparently. We knew that coming in. We all have our strengths. Okay, so the reason why we wanted to talk more about this, because there's been a lot of people lately, I know, on my side that have been like, I didn't even know about dyscalculia or dyscalculia or dysgraphia.

00:01:46
Did you sit on a Zoom meeting recently with us? This is where a lot of this, you know, your awareness kind of. Yeah, it did. Well, because then I was like, oh, my gosh. Because.

00:02:00
And also, I was not. I was never officially diagnosed with dyscalculia. Montgomery was. And then when I. When he was diagnosed, I was like, wait a second.

00:02:10
I was just bad in math and no one could teach me. And then when I started looking into it, I was like, oh, my God, I'm totally dyscalculia or dyscalculia. And we laughed because I was talking about, like, some of my summer jobs are, like, over tipping, or I never under tip because I would never want it to be cheap. So I always over tip. That happens.

00:02:29
We did that the other day with the Pizza. Elizabeth gave me the side eye dirty look, and I'm like, just tip them whatever. I'm like, that's the first time here. We got to make sure he's happy. Wasn't very good pizza anyway, so.

00:02:39
Oh, so. Yeah, but that's. But that happens. Like, so I always over tip because I never want to look cheap, but I'm always like, that was part of my. When I lived in New York City and I wasn't making enough money and I over tipped everyone and I became a little in debt, but Montgomery.

00:02:54
And then this is what Truman was recently diagnosed with. And he. It's funny, there's a couple times he's been, I don't know, someone with a valet, but I know that sounds so uppity, but anyways, he tipped the valet driver, and he was telling Hahn and I how much he tipped, and we were like, no. He's like, why? He was a nice guy.

00:03:09
You know, he needs it. And we're like, you have no money. You are a child, and you're not making enough money to do that. But he has no. He doesn't really have a sense, though.

00:03:17
He is not good with numbers as much as, like, Penelope and Hahn. Wow. Can. I don't know if we. We can calculate that to tip over.

00:03:32
Tipping a valet guy to Disco Coolia, like, because he couldn't. Well, you're right. What are you supposed. Okay, give me the definition of how much are you supposed to tip a valet guy? Yes.

00:03:43
Okay, fair enough. Because there's no percentage. Right. Okay, so. Okay, so.

00:03:47
I'm sorry. That was a terrible. My whole point was he's not good with, like, numbers and knowing the sense or the. No. Yeah.

00:03:54
I've got nothing. Nothing. Yeah, so I've got nothing either. And it's. And it's.

00:04:00
It is living in a. Like, again, we talk about reading and all of this, but also living in a world where now you don't have to, like, thank God, you don't have to do algebra every day. Even though we had to do, like, learn stupid math that you never need, which makes me angry. I don't even start me with that. But thinking about how to calculate or do anything.

00:04:20
I cannot hold numbers in my head. I cannot do it. Even though back in the day I could remember everyone's telephone numbers. We all could. Right.

00:04:30
Right. We, like, you know, thank God I got Elizabeth, because Elizabeth's Rain man and numbers. And so the first time I met her parents were. It was her dad's birthday, you know, and I was telling Elizabeth's brother in law. My phone number.

00:04:49
Oh, yeah. So that he could take. I got a text like an hour later from her dad, who was at the other side of the table, who didn't have his phone. He left his phone in the car. So he remembered my number.

00:05:00
Amazing. And text me. Hey. He knows. I'm like, that's insane.

00:05:06
Because one, he wasn't even part of the conversation. Two, he remembered the number, but he remembered it for an hour, 45 minutes. Like that's crazy. I can't do it for 4.05 seconds. Never mind.

00:05:21
You know, but there's a lot of it, obviously, repetition. We all could remember everybody's number. I remember obviously when I was younger than I had to use calling cards. You know, calling cards. Because I was always with hockey, always gone.

00:05:37
Or my parents had a gas card. My dad was a traveling salesman. So we had a. We had a gas card. You had to tump in like 62 different.

00:05:45
We could all remember that. Right? So maybe it's got to do with, remember the homework, drawing the lines on the board. I was bad. I was bad.

00:05:55
Maybe if we do that 10 million times. 10 times. Right, right. But we're off topic is, you know, the part of the five. You know, part of the five D is obviously we've spoken a lot about, well, dyslexia, obviously, we know that dyslexic star, you know, dysgraphia, what is, you know, a graphic writing, you know, disco coolid, you know, Dyscalcula math, you know, it's.

00:06:17
It's a real. It's. It's a real thing. And probably 8 out of 10 times when I say those words, whoever I'm telling them to, them have no clue what I'm saying. Right.

00:06:31
And I gotta speak and I. So I always have to speak kind of the way I just did. I've got the reading portion, I've got the writing portion, I've got the math portion. And ADHD is how I kind of break it down into quasi normal terms. So normal people can understand, but they have no concept.

00:06:49
Tell us a little bit more about what you got fascinated, what you heard when you listened. I couldn't jump on that, that zoom. I think it was your sister that sent it to you. No, it was my friend's partner who's a psychologist. Yep.

00:07:04
Family psychologist. And it was, it was. They were doing webinars on the different learning disabilities. But I. There's a couple things before I jump onto that that I do want to say because I want.

00:07:14
I Bet there's a percentage of so many people out there that are not diagnosed with dyscalculia or dysgraphia. And we also know the schools have no idea. They have no idea how to teach or how to remediate. And it's. It's really interesting.

00:07:29
And I remember when Montgomery was in Southport, he had a Matthews, because he's also dyscalculia. A math teacher say to me, and this guy was the. He was a gem. He would stay up at night trying to figure out how to teach certain kids. And he was like, juliet, I think I actually have it.

00:07:48
He's like, I don't think he's as dyscalculia as we think. He's like, I actually got him to grasp a couple things. And I was like, wait, what? I was like, can you teach me too? And I mean, he just laughed.

00:07:57
But he was able, the way he taught him. And it was so. He's like, I've never seen anything like it. It's just the way Montgomery's brain worked, how he could grab onto math. Now in every class, when you have teachers that are teaching fast and you don't.

00:08:10
You're missing every step, so then you get behind. So that's like, what happened to me in math. I never had a teacher that could teach me. And then I was just labeled as the dumb girl that couldn't do math or the girl that couldn't do math because there's a lot of girls that were smart that couldn't do math. And then it's like that whole stereotype gender.

00:08:26
Oh, girls are not good at math. You know, in science, boys are. You know, back in our days, that's. They would. Is that what they say?

00:08:32
Oh, my God. Yeah. Girls, like, there's no women in stem, right? So like now the fact that I'm in stem, I laugh because I'm like, see you. I am in stem, which is.

00:08:41
Yeah. And I'm not going to get into that. That what that means. But anyways, it is that, yes, girls are not good at math. They're good in the history and the English.

00:08:49
Right. Because the girls can sit. And so it's always been a generalization, especially when I was growing up and I was the couldn't be taught math, I would have teachers just go in the back. You're not focused, you're not listening. And I'd be like, I just don't understand.

00:09:03
And I never was taught math. Like, I literally, Penelope the other day was like, well, I want to see how bad you really are. And I was like, oh, boy. And she was not saying it meanly because there was a couple of times we were doing things, and she's like, wait, you really can't do that. And I was like, no, I really can't, honey.

00:09:18
I'm not. I just, you know, for me is fives or, like, tens. Like, I. Yeah, you know, it's like I'm two years old or counting on my fingers or. Yeah.

00:09:31
I don't know how many times I was hanging the TV yesterday. Oh. And there were so many holes, so I had to put, you know, two bars on, you know, on the tv and to make sure they're level. It took me probably 10 times to remember how many holes I needed above where the screw was going to go.

00:09:56
Forgot. 1, 2, 3, 4, 2, yo. Or how many times I walk into the rink when I'm teaching hockey. I look up the board and, okay, what dress room are we in? Oh, yeah, Walk down the hallway.

00:10:11
Forgot to go back when I walked up. I know. Forgot again, like, so many times. You know, that's Disco Coolia. Like, that's.

00:10:21
It's people, like, you know, it's so exhausting. Like, it took me, I don't know, probably half an hour to do tv. Right. You know, obviously he's trying to make it work, but it probably took me 15 minutes just to count the fucking holes to where I got to put them together so that they're, you know, their level. Yeah, yeah, no, totally.

00:10:44
So. And that webinar, there was a lot of stuff that I. I think the webinar that we also. I think I did. I was on the dysgraphic one that had a lot of aha moments.

00:10:54
And then I did listen to the Disculia one, and it is very. I mean, it is like what we. We know. And I'm going to talk about it in a different term, but this is what I learned. But it's easier for me to explain it in, like, real time.

00:11:08
So I'm going to take us to the event. And when I did the merchandise table, so the people that were doing the merchandise, very sweet high school students, they left, and I was like, oh, I'll jump in. How many people are still coming up to the merchandise? Because it was later. Well, a lot of people came up to the merchandise table.

00:11:27
Not like. Like a lot. And I was like, I get so fucking sweaty. So that we also had the square device where you had to, you know, put the calculations in, so you have the sheet that says how much it is. I Put.

00:11:40
Didn't I put that sheet together? Pretty much. I helped you put the numbers together, but I put it. Okay. So I've seen it, like, multiple times.

00:11:49
It's on the table. It's also over here. And every time. How much is this? I have to look.

00:11:54
I can't remember how much the price is because that number's not going to stick in my head. Then if someone's like, okay, I'm going to get two, my brain literally goes zero. It goes blank. Right. There's nothing there.

00:12:07
It goes blank. And then I get, like, a panic, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna look so dumb. And this is so crazy. I'm, like, doing this, and there's like, you know, whatever. We're at a dyslexic event.

00:12:18
It's like, okay, we're with people that would understand, but I'm like, okay. And I have to, like, calm my body down. And that's the wrong person that would understand, right? Well, no, no, I'm getting to that one. No, I'm getting to that one.

00:12:30
So this was, like, you know, leading up. I mean, we had a lot of people coming up. Yeah. And then there were some kids that wanted to help, and I was like, great, you guys can help. But they were also discount.

00:12:39
Cool. So we were working together, but the mom was like, oh, my God, thank you. That was so kind, you know, giving them confidence. I'm like, it was also great because I like, you hold on to this number. You think about this.

00:12:49
Let's write it down. And then, you know, thank God for calculators. I mean, on the phone, because I cannot do anything without a calculator. I cannot. People be like, well, just break it down like this.

00:12:59
Just break it down. My mind literally goes blank. And I cannot do it. Cannot. Like, I've tried for paper, pen, you know.

00:13:09
Yo. Yeah. Dots, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Okay, that's five over here, right? Like, yep.

00:13:17
You know, I had 22 numbers. Elizabeth, she's got it down in 22 seconds. It's crazy. It's amazing. You're the first number.

00:13:24
I'm still stuck on the first number. And I'm 22 seconds in, like. Yep. No, totally. It's almost like a strainer.

00:13:31
Think of your straining pasta. The holes are so big. It doesn't catch anything. We just go straight through. Yep.

00:13:39
Now you go. Go to a person who doesn't have it. It's almost like you're pouring it into a pot. Catches everything. Yep.

00:13:46
Oh, I love that. Yeah, am I, you know, is that a bad. I just thought of that just now. No, I love it. Because also think about all the spaghetti in there.

00:13:54
There's all those numbers being put in and it's literally going right out of the holes. Yeah, yeah. It's like going now. And the water's going out of the holes is what. You know, if you think about the analogy, it's like just all.

00:14:03
It's just draining. It's. All that information is the spaghetti and it's like out of the. Out of it. When you put it in a pot, it's.

00:14:10
It's there. Right. So this one example, awesome. He was buying a bunch of different things because he was going to give them out. Came over and was like, literally, okay, I'm going to get six shirts.

00:14:23
Oh, wait, no, seven. Oh, wait, no, I'll get seven shirts. How many of these? And I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, wait, now I'm going to get five hats.

00:14:30
Oh, wait, there's only four here. Okay, I'm going to get three. Are you calculating this? And I was like.

00:14:36
And you were kind of in the corner. Corner watching. And I was like, I kind of overheard a couple. I kind of overheard a couple things and all of a sudden I. I see you go red.

00:14:45
And then I just. I watched it. I didn't know I wasn't jumping in to help because I would have been zero help. Right. Because I would panicked and.

00:14:54
Right. Oh, yeah. I just kind of let, you know, let you go. And then you came over. We figured it out.

00:15:00
Well, I mean, little Logan was next to me. And I'm like, you getting this? And he looked at me, he's like, no. And I was like, okay, well, we need to focus.

00:15:08
How many dyslexes does it take to change light? Bu. Right. As many as it does to calculate. Right.

00:15:13
So then he was getting. And then it was like shirts. And he's like, oh, wait, I'll get another shirt. How many? And I'm like, okay, shirts are 25.

00:15:20
Hats are 30. Wait, that shirt is. Is 35 because that was a long sleeve or 30. And then. But the thing is, this is what I want someone to understand.

00:15:28
So when he's saying, I'm like holding on to the number 30 because that's how much the shirt is, when he says six, the number 30 leaves. Because now I have six in my head. And I'm like, how much was it? Then I would have to look. And if I didn't get it on the calcul, literally, as he was.

00:15:43
And then he's putting hats and numbers. I literally could not work fast enough. I'm a 51 year old woman and I, you know, I'm. I'm successful. So, like, this is like, it's.

00:15:52
It's also really. It's humbling. And I know the person that was doing it, but not really that well. He clearly did not understand dyscalculia or dyscalculia or know that I had it right. And I think if I did, like, I was like, well, can you just slow down for a second?

00:16:06
And he's like, oh, yeah. But then he's like, hey, I think his kid was there. Wait, here is these. He's like, did you calculate these? And I was like, no, I didn't calculate that.

00:16:14
You just wait one second. I just hold on one second. And. And then. So I'm getting in the calculator, then telling, thank God little Logan's next to me.

00:16:21
I'm like, your cal. He's like, I got what you said. And I was like, okay. I was like, here's the total. Were we getting all the totals?

00:16:25
Because on the calculator I needed a pen and paper. As you said, if I had a pen and paper, I would have been fine. But I could not mentally do it by myself. So that was my fault. I didn't have a pen and paper at the.

00:16:37
No, I think there probably was behind. And then it was for special orders, but that was in the binder back. So it's gotta do a better job keeping pen and paper right there. Well, for just in case I get stuck in the merchandise. And that's what.

00:16:52
Elizabeth was so cute. Cause she's like, you know, I want us walking around. But I was like, oh, I was just gonna step in and help them and didn't anticipate that to happen. But I still at, you know, 51 years old, I still like even being at the merchandise table, I started getting a little sweaty and I was like, okay, you're fine. You're doing like, stop.

00:17:10
Like. But my. In my head, I'm like, oh. Because anything that comes with numbers, standing up, reading out loud, right? There's these certain things, calculating by yourself.

00:17:19
I can't calculate anything. Don't ask me to do anything in my head at all. It goes zero, obviously. You know, September 15th, we got the golf event. You remember last year how badly I up all the foursomes, but we were nowhere even close.

00:17:34
Well, I think you ran it by me too. I was like, it sounds great. Worst person gone so Elizabeth's like, all right, we got to figure that, you know, we had to backtrack out of that. And, you know, now it's obviously, we're back to, you know, done the main event, but now it's, you know, planning that one. I'm like, I've calculated that 17,000 times, and I don't know, you know, 616,950.

00:17:57
I got different numbers, right? Right. Oh, my God. I never trust myself with numbers. Right?

00:18:02
And you have to do it. Like, here's the thing. Like, I wasn't going to be like, no, I can't do it. We have to put someone else there, or, no, we don't need any more merchandise sold. I was like, I will step up and do it.

00:18:11
But, you know, when you're doing the golf, like, you have to do that. You're the person that needs to do the golf event. You have to have the knowledge of it. So it's not like we can just. There's things that you can push off on other people.

00:18:21
And, yes, we had other people doing it, but I was like, oh, they can go to the bathroom. I'll do it. How many people are really going to be here? And then there was a time there was like, four or five people, and I was like, oh, there's five people. I should not be doing this in line.

00:18:33
Which was great. That's, you know, and that's when, you know, anxiety comes into play, right? Oh, yeah. You look at it and, you know, a simple thing like that most people can do, right? And they have no problem doing it.

00:18:49
And, you know, a teacher be like, oh, it's easy to do. I've done it. But you don't have this. They don't have the understanding. So it's.

00:18:58
That's why we're obviously being. You know, we're very open, and we do what we do to talk about it, to understand more struggling, too, in these positions. You know, Elizabeth is rain man. You know, hand her numbers. You know, in the middle of night, she's.

00:19:14
I hear 1222, you know, as she's sleeping, right? You know, so she's. She's got that right. So everybody's got their strengths, weaknesses, but we talk about her weaknesses because you're not alone. And, you know, in this journey, whoever.

00:19:27
You know, whoever's listening or yo. If we don't. If we're not honest about it and. Yeah. And it's uncomfortable.

00:19:35
It's uncle. It's. It sucks. It sucks. And so just think about a kid in a Classroom with their peers.

00:19:43
Like, you know, even though we know we have these learning differences, whether they're caught or not, you know, you just. You feel dumb. I mean, and it's still, like. Even though I know that I am not dumb, but math, I mean, I really have no sense of it. I'm terrible with money.

00:20:00
I told Elizabeth recently, you know, if I go up to a cashier somewhere and the price is wrong, very rarely will I say, I think the price is wrong because I'm afraid I'm wrong. Right? Okay, totally. Now, if it's a thousand, you know, big money off, right? But if it's, you know, a couple bucks, and Elizabeth's got no problem negotiating down and doing all the things and things she gets, I could never do that because.

00:20:26
No, me either. What if I'm wrong? I look dumb? Now I'm the idiot. Now I'm stupid.

00:20:32
Like, all these things that come in there, you know, and I. I leave, you know, leave there questioning myself. Oh, even if I didn't do it, was it wrong? Should I do it? You know, I do that.

00:20:45
Yeah. Because. Yeah. I have no. There's none.

00:20:49
And. Yeah. And it's like, even if someone gives me back change and I. I can't. I cannot do that in my.

00:20:54
I cannot do that. Cannot do that in my head. Good. Can't even, you know, tipping at restaurants. I have to get my calculator or ask my kid.

00:21:02
And there's all those tricks. Take the decimal and move it to the left, to the right. I mean, my mom would teach me all the time. Or you double the tax. Like, that's another one.

00:21:11
People would say, just take the tax and double. I always just like him, like, 20, $25. Or. Or if it's like. Or if it's more than, like, 200, then I know, like, you do.

00:21:21
Like, what? Yeah, my nail and hair. People love me.

00:21:29
And then you can't go back. And then when you calculate it, you're like, oh, all right. And it's not like I'm Rockefeller, but whatever. It all comes back. But it is.

00:21:38
It is a one of these things that. A disability again, it's hidden, like dyslexia. You know, you're not reading and writing. But math is incorporated in a lot of things, and it is. It's exhausting tax time.

00:21:53
I mean, poor Hahn will be like, okay, did you get all your taxes together? And. And they'll be like, okay, how much was this? And I just make numbers up. And he's like, okay, honey, can.

00:22:01
Is that right? And I'm like, I'd probably not. Why are you asking me? He's like, all right, I'll. But he's really funny because he'll be like, he won't buy.

00:22:12
Like, he's not going to sit and be like, let me do it with you. And I'm like, honey, I'm. I'm not going to give you the correct stuff. Like, I have no idea. I'm terrible at keeping it.

00:22:18
I've. There's not. No doubt it's gone. It's. What was it?

00:22:22
I don't know what it costs. It seems like it's a great deal. No, it's not a great deal. I am. I'm really bad.

00:22:29
So I wanted to talk about it because I do think that so many people don't understand that it's literally our brains. It's not like it's working slower or like I literally go blank the second someone starts throwing numbers at me. And I remember Penelope when she was little, her favorite thing. Oh, my God. And I'll.

00:22:48
And it would be like, at the end of the day, my headphone just fell out. At the end of the day, she would ask me what things, how much? Like, mommy, what is this? Plus this, plus this, plus this. And I would be like, honey, I don't know.

00:23:03
I don't know. And I remember, like, she would quiz all the time. And it was hard because I better you than me. Oh, yeah. So we just wanted kind of people to understand that's what dyscalcolia is.

00:23:15
And it's another thing you have to understand. Another one of the 5Ds. Yep, it is. Thank you for listening to another episode of Word Blindness Dyslexia exposed on our wonderful journey of dyscalculia. You know what to do, like rate, review, and share.

00:23:33
Because you really don't know who has this. Or all of a sudden they might be like, wait, I think I have it. Because there is a thing with someone maybe wasn't taught correctly. But if it's that. That difficult, it's usually because you have a learning disability.

00:23:44
It's not because you weren't taught and you're dumb. It's because you learn different. So definitely check this out and share. We will see you for another episode of Word Blindness, Dyslexia Exposure.