YNS Live with NFL Thread Chris & Sarah Carr

yns live with nfl thread May 26, 2024

Listen to a new episode of YNS Live with NFL Thread recorded live on Fireside with hosts Juliet Hahn and Cynthia Zordich featuring special guests Sarah and Chris Carr.


Sarah Carr is an independent brand advocate partnering with Green Compass, a leading hemp-based wellness company. Together, we're dedicated to promoting holistic well-being through USDA Certified Organic products. With a focus on education, personalized guidance, and advocacy, I empower individuals to make informed choices that align with their health goals. Join me on this transformative journey towards a healthier, more fulfilling life with Green Compass.


Chris Carr currently is a Senior Attorney at Murray Osorio PLLC, which is a full-service immigration law firm that has offices in Silver Spring, Maryland, Fairfax, Virginia, and Newark, New Jersey. Before his law career, he played nine seasons in the NFL as a cornerback and kick returner. He earned my J.D. at the George Washington University Law School and completed his undergraduate studies at Boise State University, where he won the Pat Fuller Memorial Academic Award. In addition, he's on the Board of Directors at Brain Injury Services, which supports and empowers survivors of traumatic brain injuries in Northern Virginia.


Remarkable Quotes


“The key is trying to just be curious and trying to find things that spark our interests. The NFL does have a lot of avenues to explore and to find out what you really love.”


“I'm always so inspired by other people who pivot and do whatever it is that really sparks joy in them.”



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Created live on Fireside. I'm going to introduce yns live with NFL thread. My name is Juliette Hahn. I am here with my co host, Cynthia Zordich. And we have Sarah and Chris Carr.

Welcome, guys. How are you? Good. How are you? Thanks for having us.

Thank you for having us. Yes. Thank you so much. It's always so exciting. The pivot issue is near and dear to my heart, especially after working on my project when my husband was leaving, when the clock runs out, where I interviewed several players about transitioning out of the game.

To me, it's the most important story to tell current players and spouses about how we transition through and how we handle it. And I just. Your story is incredible. So thank you so much for joining us today to talk about transitioning into the game, your life before the game, your life during, and what you guys are doing now. So thanks for jumping on.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I would love to take it back. My favorite thing is kind of to take it back and give a little background of both of yours, like where you grew up a little bit, a little bit about your childhood. If we could start there. And whoever wants to start first, if Chris, you want to start, or Sarah, you want to start, you guys can fight to who starts first.

I'll go ahead and start. You can start. My girlfriend, Reno, Nevada. Yeah. So very far from where I live today.

I grew up with my mother and my two older sisters. My father lived in the Bahamas, in Florida my whole life, but I had a great childhood. We're a lower class family, but I was always happy. We always had food on the table. We had enough clothes, and we had the basic necessities, and we had fun.

So I grew up there. I met a lot of great people there. I still have some best friends that I have from my childhood, from elementary school, and some people that I didn't go to high school with, but I played football with still really good friends with them. I was very fortunate to go to a powerhouse football school in high school that taught really good values and ethics about it being bigger than the individual. There was no individual awards.

There was no names on the back of your jerseys. There was no celebrating about yourself. It was all about the team. And so I look back, even though I think of Reno now, that it's not the best place in the world. I hate to admit I'm not one of those people that is just so biased about their hometown that everything is good about it.

But I was very fortunate to live there in the time period that I did because I met a lot of great people that had a major impact in my life. Positive impact. I love that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

So, Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about your upbringing and where you grew up? So I grew up in chalice, Idaho, which is a very small town, like central Idaho. A thousand people in my town and my family were cattle ranchers, so I grew up on a ranch. You know, my closest neighbor was like miles away, and so it was like my parents ended up getting divorced when I was like ten. And so then we moved, like, in town.

But I spent most of my childhood riding horses, and I did a lot of, like, horse showing, four horses, that type of thing. It was, in my opinion, like, such an ideal childhood of like, you know, you had your animals and, you know, you worked hard, you learned hard work just through taking care of, you know, your animals and things like that. And my mom was one of eight children, so I had 26 1st cousins who were like all my best friends. And we had like, you know, gone to a ton of shenanigans and had a lot of fun. And where I lived, there was only one elementary school, one middle school, one high school.

My mom was an elementary school teacher. And yeah, I played sports, like, in high school, but once we went to college, I was, like, done with that. And I have, like, two siblings. I have a younger brother and a younger sister. So that's kind of my childhood in a nutshell.

Yeah, I love that. Can you guys tell us a little bit about where, when, when you met? So take us through that a little bit. Yeah. So go ahead.

So we met.

So we met. It was my girlfriend's actually birthday. It was a Wednesday. I remember it was a Wednesday night because I was taking a summer school, a chemistry class that was like a nightmare. It was like 3 hours a day lecture, and then I had a four hour lab.

And so she was like, do you want to go out for my birthday? It was like, literally the last thing I ever wanted to do. But it was her birthday, so I was like, okay. So we went out to a club in Boise, and that's where Chris and I met. He just came and asked me to dance.

Yeah, Chris can. Well, I wanted to, like, leave the whole night. And then he came up, like, right at the end of the night and was like, do you want to dance? And my friend was like, oh, I'm ready to go. So I was like, oh, you know, do you want to just walk me to my car?

And he was like, okay, he's like, can I get your number? And I was like, well, I don't have anything to write it on. And he was like, I'll remember it. And I was like, okay, sure. And he called the next day.

You remembered it. Wow. I love that. Yeah, she was lucky, because at the time, she didn't know that. I don't.

I don't go out very often, so. Yeah. So we met. Yeah. It was by two chance, being a person that traditionally doesn't go outside the house too often.

Yeah. It was very. I was very fortunate that we met that night. That's funny. Both of you were feeling the same way.

You both were kind of reluctant to go, and you end up meeting, which is really incredible when you think about fate in that way.

Yeah. There's so many different moments in all our lives where we, you know, just stayed home or, you know, both good and bad. You know, it's just very. Once you think about it, just. It's always crazy to think about those moments.

Yeah. And we talk about that. I mean, often. Chris almost played. No, go ahead, Sarah.

I think there's a delay. So you finished, so. Nope, you go, so, Chris, you said Chris almost played. Oh, and I was gonna say, chris. Chris almost played basketball at a different college.

And it didn't end up working out because a kid broke his arm the previous year. So, like, I mean, we couldn't even. We almost didn't even end up in the same place. And so, like, you're saying just, like, how the things work out is. Yeah.

The story was the kid. I accepted a verbal. I verbally committed to go to the University of Portland to play basketball with my best friend from high school. Cause he accepted, too. And he ended up going there to play for the University of Portland.

But their point guard dropped out of school that year, and so they needed a point guard right away, and they needed to give a scholarship to a point guard. So they ended up finding someone from Australia who could come, and so they contacted me. This is probably a month after I had already committed and stated that they told me the story, what happened? And they apologized because I no longer had a scholarship available for me. And then after that, it was kind of like all those other basketball schools dropped out because they thought I was going to Portland.

And then I was like, well, if I can play basketball in college, I play football. And I actually saw that guy from Australia at my best friend's wedding, and I thanked him. I was like, because it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be in the NFL right? Now, like one of those stories how, I mean, I would have been a mediocre, hard working basketball player in college, but I liked basketball more growing up. So it was, it was the best thing for me, even though at the time I was very disappointed.

Yeah, I can imagine being, I mean, I have kids that play sports. I have three kids and my middle son is a basketball player. And so I know when you have these kind of expectations as you're growing up and if you have skill and you're like, okay, I know I want to do this. And to be young, to be, you know, eight, to pivot. I know you're kind of talking in it in a very light manner, but I'm sure it was, it was pretty devastating.

If you're thinking you're going to do this and all of a sudden you're a kid and you're like, okay, now I have to pivot. Can you take us through what you kind of think? How did you get through that at the level again? You were like, I wanted to play football, but if someone's listening to this and thinking about their, their life trajectory, what tools can you give them that you kind of like, honed in on to get you through that? Yeah.

Looking back at that, probably for about two months, I was very disappointed because basketball was everything to me when I was younger. Football, I mean, football was important, too, but basketball definitely, there was a different level of love and commitment to basketball. But I think the one thing that I had in my mind is that I didn't have any illusions. Well, now I think about it now, I wasn't illusion. I didn't have any dreams or I didn't think I was going to play professional sports, even though I was by far the best football player in the state.

I still, nobody had ever come, nobody had ever come from Reno and played in the NFL besides, like a couple of linemen from the early eighties that before I was born. And so at the time, I was just like, well, all these great players that I saw that went to school with my older sister, they never went to major football programs. And I knew that all the best players and athletes, they live in Florida, they live in California, they live in Texas. So I had this realistic view in the sense that, well, I'm really good here, but I'm not going to play in the NFL and I'm not going to play in the NBA. So my big thing was, I really want to get a scholarship so I can have my school pay for.

But I've always been kind of like my focus is always forward in that. I don't really focus on what could have been or it's like, this is your life now, and you have to make the best of it now. I love that. And so I've always had that attitude, and I remember when I was at Boise State my freshman year, I didn't like it very much, and I was the only freshman that wasn't redshirting. So I wasn't around the older athletes because I was staying on campus while all the other athletes who are fresh in my age, who lived in my dorm rooms, they were going out partying and doing all this stuff, which I couldn't do and didn't want to do anyways.

So it's just a very lonely, different time. But I remember one guy asked me, he was like, do you miss high school? Do you miss being the man and everyone knowing you? I was like, no. He's like, you like it here?

I was like, no. I was like, but this is life now. I was like, I have to try to make the best of it now. And so I think having kind of, like, that positive attitude of looking forward and, like, how am I going to fix or improve the situation that I have now and appreciating things, because it's one thing to not be able to go play college basketball at a place. It's another to lose your mother or to be diagnosed with cancer or, you know, something major.

Right. So it's like one of those good problems, like, oh, I can play college basketball or college football. I really appreciate that, because things could have been much worse. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I mean, it's.

That's really important. Sarah, I want to kind of throw it back to you. Were you surprised that Chris remembered your number and called you?

Yeah, for sure. Because, you know, I was. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like, you know, you never know if, like, someone's, like, serious or, like, they're just, you know, asking your number to ask or whatnot.

And so what? I also was like, you know, I feel like in your younger, you know, there's a lot of game playing, like, oh, maybe I won't call her for three days or, you know, whatever the case may be. And, like, you know, one thing for right off the bat, that, like, Chris was like, yes, I'm interested. And, you know, there wasn't a lot of game playing. And, like, he's, you know, which was one of the things that was, like, I was attracted to is just like, this is who I am.

I like you like, you know, let's get to know each other and see if, you know, that continues to be like that. So, yeah, it was refreshing and surprising. I love that. Sarah, I have a question. Being with your background with cattle ranching and growing up with all of your cousins, it doesn't sound like that you were affiliated with the game of football all too much in your childhood, or were you, like, were you a football fan, or was this a new world for you as well, entering in, because, Chris, you were already playing, I'm sure, on the team when you guys met.

Yeah. So it was his sophomore or going into a sophomore year when we met. My. Well, like, being from a small town, like, the football games and, like, the high school activities were definitely, like, a thing to do. There wasn't a ton to do in my small town, so I was like a.

I liked football, you know, at the high school level, like, my brother played, it was like the quarterback. So I knew, like, the rules of the game, and I liked watching, like, our high school team. And then, you know, as I moved into college, it was also another, like, social event. I can't say that I, like, watched it on tv and was, like, really, like, an avid fan and, like, the NFL in particular, would watch, like, the Super bowl, but, like, not really.

So this is a whole new world. I was, like, familiar with the. Yeah. So I think we have a delay, which I know it's probably a little tricky for everyone to kind of navigate who's talking and who's not. No, not at all.

It's not your fault at all. It's Mercury's in retrograde, and we don't. Even if you don't believe in that or you don't know what that is, you can just ignore what I said, but it messes with stuff up here. It messes with the communications. So, Sarah, so when you guys, I would love for you to kind of take as early, Chris, maybe you can start with the.

When you were getting recruited, and I shouldn't say recruited, when you were going into the draft and all that. Like, when did that come? Really, like, wait, I can actually go to the NFL? As you were saying, you never thought that that was something that was on your radar? Yeah, at the end of my junior year, I felt that.

Cause I was at. When I was a Boise state, it was the beginning of the program growing. My sophomore year was the first time we were ever ranked at the top 25, and we finished in the top 15 my last three years. So at that time, I had played against teams where they had NFL players, right. Who people that later went on to play in the NFL.

And so by the time at the end of my junior year, I felt, oh, well, like, I think I'm good enough. I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it now. But I was like, this actually might be something, because my mindset before that was just improve, improve, get better, get better, get better. And not, and so I wasn't a pessimist in that I didn't think just because I had come from Reno, Nevada, or I was playing at Boise State, that I couldn't compete and I couldn't be good and things would never happen. It was just, I just didn't have this goal that I was going to play in NFL, etc.

My goal was always to get better. Like, you see what the standard is. If you don't meet that standard, try to meet it continuously. But once I came to the end of my junior year, we played TCU in a bowl game. I had a really good game, and after that game, I was like, I think this might.

This might happen. And then agents started calling me, and then I got a. I agreed to the sign with my agent, like, my senior year. And then from that moment, we talked once a week for ten years straight after that. And I got better over the summer, and I had a really good first five games in the season.

Then I broke my collarbone, and then I remember I was crying after that because I was like, this potentially might have been my last game ever playing in my life. But I think that was the impetus, in a lot of ways, of me really saying to myself, like, don't let this be your last game. And so I really worked hard after that, and I, more so than ever, I was like, okay, this is a goal that you want to accomplish. And then I was an undirected free agent, and coming out, and I knew that was going to be difficult for me because I was undersized. I'd started off a corner, but I had switched to playing safety, so I was too small to be a safety.

But I hadn't played corner since my freshman year. I was really good punt returner, kick returner, and I had missed half of my senior season, so I knew that getting drafted was unlikely, and I knew the chances of making the team when you're an undrafted free agent were slim. But once I got to training camp, we had two cornerbacks drafted in the first round, and within 20 minutes of the practice, I was like. I felt like I was the best rookie that they had drafted or I wasn't even drafted, but I felt like I was the best. And so that was the first time in my life where I realized that even though they do a really, the scouts do a really good job of evaluating players, et cetera, sometimes people are going to slip through the cracks.

And then at that moment, I was like, okay, it's really got to be, you can't use an excuse about, you know, you're going to get stigmatized. And I knew that my mistakes are going to garner more criticism than somebody who is a first or second round pick. Right. Because if I make a mistake, it's like, oh, well, he's undrafted. We expect him not to be good.

Right. He's just here just in case somebody gets hurt. Whereas if you're a first round or second round pick, people have invested money into you in time and effort and they want you to make the team, right. So they're more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Accepting my role, accepting that it wasn't going to be easy, but I think the belief of knowing in my mind, like, this is how I viewed it.

Knowing that I was better than them gave me a lot of confidence going into training camp. And so I think that's why I played so well during training camp, because I always say, like, I'm going to believe my eyes, you know, like, if I see it and I understand it, like, I'm going to believe that. And so I knew in my heart that I was better than them, but, yeah, so that was kind of the journey it started my junior year at the end of it realizing that it was a possibility, but it was kind of like, as the months gone on, there was just, like, more incidents that showed me like, oh, this isn't just a dream. And just gave me more confidence and validated my thoughts from earlier that what I had thought from the end of my junior year until training camp was the truth. That's cool.

I love that. Cindy, did you have. Did you want to comment? Oh, no. I thought you were coming in.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. I definitely, definitely would. Part of me feels that because your mindset was about having the confidence and believing in yourself and not so much a dream since childhood, I wonder if that didn't change your focus, that, you know, enabled you to just kind of, like, excel and just concentrate on being better and got you there on the field, you know, where emotionally you weren't tied into the game as much as some others that might have dreamt to be an NFL player. It seems like that isn't isn't necessarily seem like it was your dream, but something that you just did very well, and you knew that you did it very well.

It just kept taking you, your talent kept taking you, and it's kind of interesting. Yeah, I think that's well put. I think that is well put. I've never thought about that way, but, yeah, I think that's definitely true. And I think, too, for me, football was never an avenue where, or sports in general where it was about acknowledgement, like, how many girls are watching me play or how many times have I appeared in the newspaper, right.

Or who saw this, right. None of that was important to me, and I think Sarah can attest to that, too. And I think that's why if you watch any of my highlights, I barely ever celebrated unless it was my teammate or someone else doing something, because my thing was just all about what the job is, what the task is, and getting better and having pride in whatever you do and knowing that you have ability and trying to improve that. And in a lot of ways, it alleviates a lot of extra stress because I'm not worried about the things that could possibly hold me back. Right.

I'm just worried about the task at hand. And I think that enabled me to get to reach more of my potential than most athletes do because there's a lot of different things, variables in their heads and their mindsets that I think that might block their development, whereas I just kind of had this kind of, like, machine, like focus, like, this is just get better. Nothing else matters. If you make it, great. If you don't, that's fine, too.

Yeah, I love that. I love that question. Yeah, I love that. So, Sarah, can you take us through, you know, when Chris was drafted and you guys started, you know, you were in this relationship, and he was early in his career, kind of where you were in your life. Sure.

And just to add on to what he said, too, I think Chris enjoys the process of getting better, even at anything. He is not so much about the product, but I think, like, that's like a big part of his personality, too, is that, like, daily he likes to improve himself or, you know, like, he speaks Spanish now. He work, you know, he really likes to. So I think that was, like, a big part of his personality and not worrying so much about the outcome, because if you work hard at something every day, you're going to get better at it, too. But so I was, I was in dental hygiene school.

I'd graduated from Boise State as he was going into the NFL, and I like, so when he said when he broke his collarbone, some of his teammates were. I lived in an apartment complex, and some of his teammates lived next door to me. And so one of them had driven him home after he had broken his collarbone, and he was like, you know, he took some, I don't know, hydrocodone or something. He's throwing up in your lawn. And so he's like, you need to go get him.

So anyways, so I went and got him, and, like, um, you know that when he. I brought him in the apartment, and he was like, you know, I've got to make it to the NFL now. And I was just like, that was, like, the first I'd ever really heard of him having, like, that goal. He always wanted to be a lawyer, and so I was, like, unsure if it was, like, the drugs talking or if this was, like, a real thing, you know? And then he did sign with an agent.

And, I mean, for me, I thought he was talented, but, like, did I really know anything about the NFL? No. Or, like, you know, and I, like, he said, like, when he went to training camp, he was like, I feel like I'm the best one here. And I think Chris is usually pretty good at, you know, I don't think he, like, over inflates, like, his talents or, you know, just, like, in general. So it was kind of like, oh, wow, okay.

Like, I guess this is happening, you know? And so when he was in Oakland, I was still in Idaho.

And how. So when. And also, I would like to take it even into now, like, when you guys were having kids and you were an NFL wife. And we're going to take it to the pivot because I really want to get to what you guys are doing now, both of you, which I think is really important for players to hear, you know, because we all know that the game's gonna end, right? The game is gonna end.

It's inevitable. I mean, it happens. And so you have to have some sort of thing. So can you take us through that kind of next stage of, you know, when Chris was in the league, when you were starting a family and where you guys were and you, either of you can kind of, you know, jump in that? Yeah.

Our first child was born, Chris's third year in Baltimore, and that was sort of the beginning of a lot of moves after that. I think we moved five times in two years, and we had our first two children during that time. Like, I gave birth to my daughter, and three weeks later we moved. And so, I mean, that became for me personally, a very, like, hectic and time. And, you know, I was seeing a therapist at the time, and she was like, you seem to be, like, handling it all really well.

And I'm like, well, inside, I do not feel like I'm handling it well. Stressful also. Like, you have no control right over it, over what's happening. And, you know, it's like things, I mean, can change 100% in, like, less than 24 hours. You know, it's like, when he signed with the team, it was like you're, you know, he's like, well, you know, I signed the contract and I'm leaving tonight.

And I was like, okay, like, you know, and then you as the wife, sort of have to, like, figure everything out, right? You have to, like, okay, like, pack up the house and when are we moving and get a new house? And, you know, Chris really had to focus on his job, and, you know, it's like when you go get into a new team, but particularly, you know, it's like, hit the, you know, hit the ground running. And so, yeah, that was bringing kids into it definitely made it a lot more stressful, I thought. Yeah.

And I have to say, because that's one of the things reason why Cynthia and I started the podcast, because it's really important people that, you know, they think, oh, you're in the NFL, everything's glamorous, right? That there's all these different things, but you don't think about what it is. Like, as you said, you just gave birth and Chris is moving. You have all these hormones. You're trying to juggle all these things.

I mean, I remember when Cynthia and I was on my podcast, my first podcast, and she said about, like, moving, and I was, like, really thinking as a mom, as a businesswoman, all these different things that just brings it to this whole other layer. And I remember being like, oh, my God. All the dentists and doctors you have to find when you have kids. Like, we've moved, but we've moved by choice. And, you know, and it's.

That's like, all of those things that. Those little minute things that people don't think about, that you really have to be built a certain way. And mentally, I mean, we've talked about this often, and there's so much mental ness in life, period. If you don't have that strong mental capabilities, you're not going to get to that next level or you're not going to be able to survive these kind of transitions and pivoting in. In life.

So, I mean, thank you for even just picturing that, because I actually got like, oh, I'm all sweaty. I just have a baby, and then I'm moving, and, like, I was like, you could feel it. And that has to be, you know, and then, as you said, chris, even if he's like, you know, an empathetic husband wanting to be there with you, he's got to focus on his job, and you can't, you know, then take your, like, oh, my God, all these different things and put them on Chris, because it's like, Chris has to do his thing because this is his business. So you have to be really built in a very certain way to be able to make it at that level as a professional athlete and a professional athlete spouse. Can either of you talk on that?

And, Cynthia, you can jump in as well?

Yeah. I mean, I do think that in some ways, professional, you know, athletes, significant others in general, I think people think it's much more glamorous than it actually is. And, you know, it's like, we do have the luxury of, you know, having the financial needs to hire people. But a lot of things, if you really want them done right, you have. You have to be, you know, you're still the captain of the ship.

And a lot of times, you know, things don't go as planned or you can't find the right person for the job. And, you know, a lot of times, like, with my, you know, girlfriends would, you know, I did have, like, supportive family and friends who would, like, fly in to help, but we'd be laughing. I'm like, if anyone knew that, we were, like, they would never believe, like, I'm schlepping, like, you know, these huge boxes up, like, three flights of stairs and just like, you know, and, like, saying, like, you know, we're talking about giving birth. It's like, you know, I was in a city where I really knew no one when Chris went to another team, and I was like, you know, I had a one and a half year old, and I was like, well, if I go into labor, like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do with him. And so, like, I just hope dad makes it home before, like, yeah, you do have to.

There's a lot of, like, stressors I don't think that people think about. A lot of times you're in cities where you don't have any family or friends, and I'm like, you know, I will say, like, I for at least, I felt, you know, other wives on your team were like, you know, my lifeline for sure. It's one thing I definitely miss now that we're out of football is like, I felt like other women were like, you know, what do you need? Like, how can I help you? Which was, you know, we had a lot in common and you kind of knew what other people were going through.

But I'll let Chris give his. It's that whole under. Well, it's that whole understanding. Yes. And I would love Chris to jump in, but it's the whole understanding.

And that's why, again, having platforms that we can share stories is so important because stories do connect us. But it's that, oh, I understand now. A woman can hear that and be like, oh, my gosh. Right. I don't.

I didn't think of that and I didn't think of that. And then that just puts a little bit more. We can be softer with each other. So, Chris, can you jump in and talk about from your side as being a new dad? And I'm sure you could hear your heart.

So you're someone that wants to be there helping. You don't want to see your wife having to be like, I'm flailing. How do you keep yourself so focused if you can take us through that a little bit? Yeah.

It was a difficult time and different in many ways because we didn't have children during the beginning stages of my career, so I was entering my 7th season once we had my first son, and so we weren't accustomed to having kids and being a place. Right. And then, so, I mean, that's adjustment in your relationship with your spouse, having a kid. And it was a part of my career, and I'm sure both of you, too, can relate to this, is that most of the time in the NFL, once you're coming to the end of your career, it doesn't end exactly how you want it to end. It's not exactly how you want it to be.

There's different struggles. So to get concrete and like, I wanted to finish my career in Baltimore. I had signed a four year contract to do so, but I was injured most of that season for the first time in my career. So that was tough. Missed about half the season due to injuries, and I knew that I was going to get released because I was scheduled to get paid a pretty decent salary for the 2012 season.

And the people who played in my absence played well, and they were younger and they were going to get paid. They could pay them less. So I knew at the end of the season that that was most likely going to be my last season. There in Baltimore. And at that time, I think Sarah had a good support system there.

We had been there for three years. I loved playing on the team there. And then I got signed with Minnesota. And from the way the facility looked to the way the coaches coached, just everything about it was just subpar, in my view. When you go from one job where you really respect everyone and there were some great people there, too, but when you feel like it's a step below than where you were at, it becomes more difficult.

Right. And so during this time, you're at different organizations, and it was a time where I kind of knew that the end was approaching. Right. My body wasn't feeling as good and I felt like I had played to the point where it's not like we need to keep doing this financially. Right.

And being considered as just a veteran backup player is harder when you are used to starting. So there was a lot of different aspects during this time, but I think as the kids got older, I think I never realized how much I was going to love my kids until you have them. Right. You hear stories, but it really is something having kids. I mean, they're just, they're by far the best thing that's ever happened to me.

So that was a great aspect of it. But there was just football wise, it was less enjoyable. Just from the business standpoint and from my body just, it feels like I just always had all these little injuries that would come up and show. And so it was kind of like at the end, it was kind of like at the end of the marathon, you run all those miles, your body hurts, you're thirsty, you're just trying to get past the finish line. And when it's like that, it becomes less enjoyable.

And I think that's partly why the pivot to something else wasn't. It wasn't as difficult as I think a lot of the stories from other NFL players because I already knew that I wanted to be attorney. And just the way things happened at the end and just the changes, it just seemed like, okay, it's time to give this up. Right. So you had, thank you for explaining that and laying it out because, again, it just gives people thoughts.

So you then decided you knew, I mean, as Sarah said when she met you, you wanted to be an attorney. So that was something you always knew. Was that something you dove right into and jumped right into law school or, you know, getting prepared for law school? I should take that back. Yeah.

So I was actually all prepared for law school in 2005, the year that I graduated, because I wasn't sure that I was going to make the team. So the plan was if I do get a chance to get a tryout or get signed by an FL team, I'll do that. Then if I get released, then I'll go to law school immediately after, whenever the next semester starts. So all my LSAT and my letters, recommendation and everything expired after five years. So when I was in Baltimore, I forget what year during the summer, I did everything again.

So I already had everything ready. And going into the 2013 season, I knew that was going to be the last season. And so I think I might have had applied for law schools maybe towards the end of the season, for 2014. So I went straight into law school. I went to George Washington University.

We moved here. We live in Arlington, Virginia, still, and we moved to. We live in a different house than we did in 2014, but it was 2 miles away from George Washington's campus in Washington, DC. So went straight into it, and it was great for me in a lot of ways because it was just number one, just the weight of the pressure. It's just off your shoulder, right?

I mean, the pressure of having one exam and one final, and that's it. That's your grade. Like, that's pressure. But that's not until the end. Like, that's not until the end.

Whereas the NFL is like, this constant pressure of, you can get released. If you have a couple bad games, you're going to be cut. And especially, I think, playing corner, too. Playing corner is a very stressful position because you're out there on an island and if you mess up, everyone's going to see it and everyone's going to blame you first if you don't perform the way they expect you to perform. And I knew from 2003 or 2002, I forget, when I took constitutional law in undergrad, I knew that I wouldn't be attorney.

And I felt like I had found something that I. It was the first time I had found something that I loved more than sports. And so it was when I was in law school, number one, everything was new and learning new things. I mean, I just loved that. And just being in that environment, and this is where I felt like this is what I'm supposed to do when it comes to that aspect of it.

That transition really was, in that sense, joyful. Really joyful. I'd like to say that I did watch an interview of yours where you talk about that moment and you talk about the professor that so inspired you, just in his tactics, and that you actually said that you felt more excited about that class than the game. And for me, I feel like that's such an important message because there is that next thing for all of us. You know, it's just finding what gives you that same rush, what gives you that adrenaline.

And so if you could talk about that class and the impact that that professor had on you. Yeah. Todd Lochner, he was a constitutional law professor, and I remember he would, whatever the constitutional issue was, whether a commerce clause or freedom of speech or freedom of religion, he would come in and take one viewpoint of the law, and the law should be this, even if it said something contrary, this is what the law should be. And then he would just call on people randomly. So you have to be prepared in class, for class.

Like, what did you think? What about this hypothetical? What about this counterfactual? What do you think? And really challenge you in that aspect?

And then the next day, he'd come in and he would take the other side, and then he would just destroy everyone using the other side. Right. And it was the first time in my life I think about any, it made me really think about, well, a lot of these issues that we might think are so simple based on our own understanding or our own biases are really aren't that simple. Right. And just that seriousness that he had that he brought to the classroom and the way he challenged us, it was, it was, yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday.

It was very inspiring. And I think, too, when I, when I think about now the pivot and thinking about what I would say to people who are in the NFL or who are in college and they're playing football is really trying to find time, to find something that you love to do. If football is something that you love to do, then going in and coaching afterwards and setting yourself to do that is probably really joyful. Gerald Alexander played with me at Boise State. He played in the NFL for about five years.

He's a coach now, and he loves coaching more than he ever did playing football. Right. Because he actually, he really loves football. And when I see him, I talk to him, I see how his eyes light up. I just think it's great.

Right. But I knew, like, for some people, it's not like that. Right. And so, and I think some people, they might even, even if coaching is not going to be as enjoyable as playing, I think there's still a lot of coaches who enjoy it, but there's other players that might, don't have the personalities to be coaches. And obviously, they can't play sports forever.

And so I think the key is with anyone is trying to just be curious and trying to find things that spark our interests. Right. And I think that because on the one hand, you have to put your full attention in the football and being the best you can or you're not going to play very long. But on the other hand, I think the NFL does have a lot of avenues and during the off season, there's a lot of times to explore and to your interest in trying to find out what you really love. And I think if more players are able to take advantage of those opportunities, right.

Whether that's in college or in the NFL, I think that will set up their time afterwards because they'll have more of an idea of what they really want to do. Because I think it becomes more difficult that when you finish and you don't really have a solid goal or game plan and what you're going to do next, I think it could be very, very difficult. Yeah. And thank you. And, you know, it's the purpose.

Cyn, did you want to. Yeah, it's funny because really that is so much the premise of why I wanted to start thread was because for the women I felt that way. And Sarah, you mentioned steering the ship, and I always refer to that as, because that's what we do so often is steer the ship through all the transitions, through all the moves, you know, as we navigated in and as we were there and as we navigated out. And I, I felt that it was so important that we connect because we need to promote each other as we do that next thing. And I can't wait to talk to you about your decision to step in and that next thing for you.

You know, after so many years in the NFL and so many years with, you know, the children and doing what you do and now we're at work, but now you're doing something new, and I want to talk about that. Yes. So, you know, I found something that fits into my life. You know, my kids are older that babies, but they're still young, you know, so something I could still do from home and, you know, when I can or whatnot. But I, how I got into it was, you know, Chris from, you know, his injuries was having like, you know, back pain and we did all the mris and doing all the things and, you know, as it would flare up and here and there, you know, he was taking a lot of ibuprofen and he played in the days of like, you know, when he took Toradol every week and, you know, a lot of players, former players, have, you know, kidney and liver, you know, damage from, you know, taking all the medications and things like that.

And so I was like, you know, I would really like to, like, you know, find something that, you know, more holistic. And a friend introduced me to, like, hemp based products. And so I was, you know, I was, like, telling my sister, and she actually has multiple sclerosis. And she was like, oh, my Ms doctor has, you know, recommended, you know, a lot of people know, as, like, CBD, but, like, cannabinoids in general support your endocannabinoid system. And, you know, so I said, Chris, you know, like, well, like, ask your doctor and see what he thinks.

And so that was my introduction into hemp based products. And then as I learned more about it and saw how they can help people, and I found a company. I'm very also into the clean living and not putting anything toxic and everything organic and their extraction process and just the, you know, every product that they have, there's a QR code, their transparency of, like, what is actually in it. You know, the farms are in the US, and everything from the growing to the packaging happens on the farm. And so it was like, you know, like you said, like Chris was saying, like, something that sparks joy.

Like, this was not something that I ever planned on getting into. I mean, even though I was in, like, the holistic, clean living type just for my everyday life. And I love to, like, help people, too. And so to, you know, educate and introduce people to something that could possibly help them was really exciting. And I feel like Chris, too, has, like, really inspired me, you know, as he's pivoted and really, I feel, like, done it really well.

And he loves what he does, you know, I mean, work can always be work, you know, even if it's your dream job. But he really loves what he does. And I was like, you know, I'd been, like, I said a dental hygienist, but I just didn't want to. I thought about, like, you know, like, possibly, like, you know, leaving my kids or going back to that. It was just always this, like, you know, I don't want to do that.

And I was like, you know, I really want to do what he's done. And I do believe in pivoting. And, you know, sometimes I know people are like, oh, we're getting older. You should just stick with what you know. And I'm always, like, so inspired by other people who pivot and, like, do whatever it is that really sparks joy in them.

And so you know, I was just kind of like waiting and praying and, you know, like maybe something will come along. And so anyways, it's been an exciting new chapter. I love that. And when we do, I mean, we pivot. I mean, Cynthia and I talk about this often, and I am all about curiosities.

I have reinvented myself a million times and I go where I know I can grow and all of my little stepping stones have brought me to what I'm doing. And it is. It's that curiosity. It's being comfortable in who you are, but also not jumping around. It's like, oh, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this.

But putting your toe into things, listening, networking, talking to people so people can find you. Sarah at Sarah. And that is with an h three as the number. Carr and I definitely want to talk to you a little bit about it, but my older son is a soccer player. He's actually just got recruited and he's going to be going to Newberry College.

He had fractured both sides of his pelvis playing. It's a crazy, crazy story, but he built himself up, Chris. I mean, when you're talking about injury, this kid, literally, it's been his dream to play in college. He built him, I mean, for a year, trained every day, has this, I mean, really intense training that he put himself on. He did it all himself.

I mean, this is when he was like, you know, 17 1617. It's been incredible. But he, we are. Someone just was saying to us, you really should look into some CBD stuff for him because he is training now again, because in four months he's going to school and he's got a goal. He doesn't, you know, he wants to get playing time as a freshman and all these different things.

And so when Cynthia said, you know, when we were talking to you, I was like, isn't it? I love when divine timing. And you guys, I mean, you're meeting and all of these different things, right? Your relationship. Sorry.

It's all of those kind of things that when we meet, it is wonderful. So people can find you there. I'm going to definitely send you a message to talk to you a little bit about it, too, because I want to learn more and see what you recommend, you know, for my son because it's, again, it's making connections and talking and stories connect us. So I really appreciate you guys coming on Yns. Live with NFL thread here.

Live on Fireside. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. This is so fun.

Yeah, I like it. I look forward to talking to you. Yes. Yes, I will. Oh, Cinder, you're muted, I think.

Yeah, you're muted. Yes. I'm just so happy to share. What I love most is we take some wonderful clips from this conversation and quotes and just put them out there and push them out there to lead people to hear this great conversation. And when we do, that will also lead to the great things that you guys are doing in your careers.

And I just think it speaks volumes for what, you know, what people have the potential to do and grow and do. So thanks for sharing that. Well, thank you. Very nice meeting both of you. You too.

Yeah. So nice to meet you guys. Yes, thank you guys for joining YNs live with NFL thread.

My focus is entirely on helping you follow your passion, even when you feel like you've got stuck in crazy town. There is a way out, its me helping you. You don't have to ditch everything in your life that is making you feel overwhelmed and stuck, you just need some help to navigate it.


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